“Our OV2312 is the only automotive image sensor that offers the combination of dual-mode RGB-IR capture and a global shutter,” said Mat Arcoleo, product marketing manager at OmniVision. “Without this combined functionality, the camera system designers would have to use two separate image sensors, which is too expensive for most vehicles. At the same time, the European Union is requiring that all automobiles have a driver monitoring system(DMS) camera by 2022, and our joint solution gives OEMs the flexibility to differentiate their vehicle features while meeting this mandate.”
Alkuperäisessä Kinectissä ir ja rgb kamerat olivat hieman erillään toisistaan joka joskus aiheutti perspektiivistä aiheutuvaa epätarkuutta ja hankaluutta syvyysdatan ja värin yhdistämiseen. Joten tämä ei pelkästään vähennä kustannuksia vaan myön parantaa itse järjestelmää.
Kiitos tiedosta.
Eli SmartEye itse luottaa/vahvistaa että 2022 sisäkamera tulee pakolliseksi. Erittäin mielenkiintoinen tuo “all automobiles” -sanamuoto, ei siis vain jonkin tason autonomous drivingia sisältävä. Stonk is going up!
…European Union is requiring that all automobiles have a driver monitoring system (DMS) camera by 2022
Pahoittelut jos jankkaan tästä aiheesta, mutta asia on ollut minulle tosi epäselvä.
Tämä lainaus näyttäisi olevan Omnivisionin Arcoleon toteamus, vaikka toki SmartEyen julkaisema.
Osaakohan kukaan arvoida miten vaikuttava tekijä tällainen yhden kameran ratkaisu voi olla? Jos todella onnistuu laskemaan hintaa ja parantamaan vielä ominaisuuksia, niin ovatko OEM:t jo kyselemässä tuotteen perään, vai onko kyseessä kuitenkin pienempi edistysaskel. SmartEyen tapauksessa tätäkään ratkaisua ei liene patenttihakemuksen jonossa, mutta voisiko olla?
“Drivers were more than twice as likely to show signs of disengagement after a month of using Pilot Assist compared with the beginning of the study,” Reagan says. “Compared with driving manually, they were more than 12 times as likely to take both hands off the wheel after they’d gotten used to how the lane centering worked.”
Pilot Assist and similar systems like Tesla’s Autopilot, Cadillac’s Super Cruise and Mercedes-Benz’s Intelligent Drive are not designed to replace the driver. They have trouble negotiating many common road features, so the driver must be in control at all times. However, with the automation managing steering and speed — quite well in some cases — it’s easy for the driver to lose focus.
“This study supports our call for more robust ways of ensuring the driver is looking at the road and ready to take the wheel when using Level 2 systems,” says Reagan. “It shows some drivers may be getting lulled into a false sense of security over time.”
NXP on yhdistänyt Smartin softan DMS-puolen tarjontaan… on siis keskeinen sopimuskumppani Smartille.
Real-time analysis of driver monitoring based on both edge/cloud processing will become a crucial element in supporting the future of connected, highly automated vehicles.
Hyvä myös huomata, että ”Amazon Alexa auton” rakentamisessa käytetään Qt:ta. Rekryt indikoivat tätä vahvasti. Lisäksi NXP on Qt:n keskeinen kumppani MCU-integroijana.
The lesson is that the development of new cloud-powered services takes a village. Over at NXP, “we are developing a number of partnerships right now,” said Carlson. The NXP-AWS deal is “just the starting point” of what more to come from the new infrastructure, he added.
En tiedä onko mitään suoraa vaikutusta mihinkään, mutta ihan mielellään istun hamaan tappiin kuutin ja smartin omistajana.
Pitäskö listata johonkin ketjuun kaikki autojen softa ja turva toimittajat, jotka skaalautuu:qt, se, cerence, jne… Ihan mielenkiintoinen sektori tämä autojen älyllistyminen ja tietokoneistoiksi muuttuminen…
Minua kiinnostaa digitaalisuus ja etenkin tällaiset murrokset. Toinen esim tuo energia, tai sitten nämä vanhat kankeat tilitoimistot ja käytetyt autot, kaikki mikä mullistuu, kuka on voittaja.
Huomenna puhelu aamukuudelta. Tassa oma kysymyslista. Viela ehtii laittaa viestia jos tulee mieleen muita kysymyksia/aihealueita.
CEO & CFO background. Paul and Naomi, I would appreciate if you could say a couple of words about your background. Paul, you joined Seeing Machines in November 2018, and became the CEO on a permanent basis in July 2019. And Naomi, you took the CFO position a couple of months later, in October 2019. Why did you want to join the company? Has Seeing Machines changed a lot as a company since you joined?
Business segments. You develop DMS technology for the Automotive, Commercial Fleet and Offroad, and Aviation markets. At the moment Fleet and Offroad, or Aftermarket in the new reporting structure is the biggest revenue contributor but, if I am not mistaken, Automotive segment should definitely become the main revenue driver for you, let’s say, beyond 2022. Is this assumption correct?
Automotive. How do you see the competitive landscape in Automotive segment when it comes to DMS? Which companies do you see as your biggest competitors?..Mainitsee varmasti Smart Eyen →
You mentioned Smart Eye. I don’t know the company very well (haha, jep jep) but I happened to go through some of their latest reports. I noticed that they have been able to capture a lot of design wins both in 2019 and 2020. Do you see this as a worry when we think about your company’s position? I mean the market seems to have been moving forward quite a lot over the past year or two.
Why do you think Smart Eye has received so many DWs? What are your key competitive advantages vs. Smart Eye for instance?
Have you experienced any dual sourcing in the market at all? Let’s say that you communicate a DW. Is it a possibility that a competitor would be selected to the same OEM platform?
If we put Tier 2 players aside, do you see any competition from Tier 1 in DMS?
DMS market size. In your latest H2 2020 presentation, I noticed an interesting slide on page 9, which tells about the potential market size. There were two rough estimates presented, one from ABI and one from Semicast. Semicast seems to be much more positive about the adoption rate. Does the Semicast estimates match with current discussions you are having your clients?
Regulatory framework. If you could discuss a couple of words about the regulatory framework and the way you think this could have an impact on the DMS adoption rate? I have seen the Euro NCAP initiative, and the US is also going forward with their own initiative.
OMS. Last month I saw a press release from you where you stated that you are expanding your offering to include OMS as well. We already talked about the competitive landscape in DMS. Do you see that you are competing against the same companies in OMS as in DMS? Or is the competitive environment very different?
Pricing. What about the pricing? Let’s say that your customer wants to buy a DMS from you? How much do you get paid, roughly? And then if your customer would like to include OMS capabilities as well, would the price double?
Maybe one question about long-term margins. In automotive industry in general margins tend to be quite low but obviously if you are only a software company you can have much higher margins than a hardware company. You have kind of both of HW and SF. I don’t know if you have given any long-term margin guidance?..30%/50% EBIT margin?
How important do you see being HW-agnostic at DMS markets? My understanding is that you have previously provided only combined hardware-software. What are the market trends? What kind of positioning do you have to trends?
@Arimatti_Alhanko Mikä on Seeing Machinesin näkemys vuoden 2022 viranomaisvaatimuksien täyttämisestä muilla teknologioilla kuin DMS?
Englanniksi:
In your view, how well can the 2022 EU regulatory requirements regarding driver drowsiness and distraction be fulfilled with other technologies than DMS? Do you trust there will be more detailed specification of this regulation supporting your technology to be used?
Sulla on @Aston_Livingstone markkinointitaidot paremmin hanskassa niin saat tehda kyseisen kuvan jos haluat
Tassa kommentit puhelusta:
CEO & CFO background. Paul and Naomi, I would appreciate if you could say a couple of words about your background. Paul, you joined Seeing Machines in November 2018, and became the CEO on a permanent basis in July 2019. And Naomi, you took the CFO position a couple of months later, in October 2019. Why did you want to join the company? Has Seeing Machines changed a lot as a company since you joined?
Paul. Came to take lead in the Fleet business. Biggest changes: commercialising the business, bringing a new management team. It was more like a R&D business when I joined. First time this year we really had a budgeting process in place. Hitting budget every month this year, even during Covid.
Naomi. Eipa juuri kommentteja. Ainoastaan pari kommenttia budjetoinnista. Siina koko puhelun anti.
Business segments. You develop DMS technology for the Automotive, Commercial Fleet and Offroad, and Aviation markets. At the moment Fleet and Offroad, or Aftermarket in the new reporting structure is the biggest revenue contributor but, if I am not mistaken, Automotive segment should definitely become the main revenue driver for you, let’s say, beyond 2022. Is this assumption correct?
Yes, I would say that we do DMS for transport.
We have invested majority of our money in Automotive. We get paid first for engineering services (one-off payment). The real revenue will be the license/royalty part later on. Two car manufacturers with Seeing Machines product hitting production soon, one high volume in the US, one premium in Europe. We can publish the names 3 months after the model has been launched. Remember to keep in mind that the license business is a very high margin business. 90-95% license margin.
Aftermarket. Will be higher than Automotive revenues until 2025. Analysts are missing this after several years of our underperformance. But 40-50% YoY growth until 2025. 50% margin. HW and SW. Around 30k vehicles installed as of today.
Automotive. How do you see the competitive landscape in Automotive segment when it comes to DMS? Which companies do you see as your biggest competitors?..Mainitsee varmasti Smart Eyen →
We started in Fleet business. Because we started there, we have a lot of data available for the use in Automotive segment.
Automotive. Smart Eye & Seeing Machines two big players (90% combined market share). Eyesight much smaller, going also into Aftermarket business similar to Smart Eye. Photonation Fleet specialist, not really any competition in Automotive, and also in Fleet Driver ID validification. Not really DMS business. We even co-operate with Photonation in Fleet.
Why only two dominating players? The market size is USD 1bn per annum, it’s not that massive that a lot of competition would enter. But still big enough for us. Many players monitoring head signals but DMS really about tracking pupils. Takes a lot of time and money. We have done this for a long period of time, same as Smart Eye.
You mentioned Smart Eye. I don’t know the company very well (haha, jep jep) but I happened to go through some of their latest reports. I noticed that they have been able to capture a lot of design wins both in 2019 and 2020. Do you see this as a worry when we think about your company’s position? I mean the market seems to have been moving forward quite a lot over the past year or two.
We don’t focus on DWs. We focus on annual volumetric growth. Many of the OEMs we have won, they have grown. I mean we get more models. Some have doubled, some have tripled. If you only look at DWs, it actually looks closer than it is. Tiedan etta olen Smartin omistaja mutta pakko suhtautua tahan vastaukseen vahan skeptisesti. Olen katsonut lapi heidan raportit ja luku pysyy AUD 200m: “Seeing Machines has nine ongoing program engagements with six Automotive OEMs, expected to generate a minimum of A$200m in revenue.” En kysellyt tasta sen enempaa, mutta ajattelin kysya viela lisaa spostin kautta.
Why do you think Smart Eye has received so many DWs? What are your key competitive advantages vs. Smart Eye for instance?..jatin valiin koska sanoi etta DW ei tarkea
Have you experienced any dual sourcing in the market at all? Let’s say that you communicate a DW. Is it a possibility that a competitor would be selected to the same OEM platform?
Redeye analyst covering Smart Eye. I have read his reports and he has no idea what he is talking about (oikeasti kaytti naita sanoja, hermostuiko DW kysymyksesta?). He really doesn’t understand how everything works in the OEM industry.
Dual sourcing is happening all the time.
If we put Tier 2 players aside, do you see any competition from Tier 1 in DMS ?
If we take Japan as an example. Tier 1s in Japan have had their own DMS in place for at least 10 years. However this technology is very old. We are having discussion with all Japanese OEMs now. Smartin johto kommentoi aiemmin nain: “Itse asiassa jotkut Tier 1 -toimittajista ovat historiallisesti kehittäneet omia DMS-ohjelmistojaan, mutta viime vuosina ne kaikki ovat lopettaneet sen tekemisen. Tähän on todennäköisesti useita syitä, mutta mielestäni heidät on pakotettu keskittämään ponnistelut muihin asioihin, ja jos olet monen miljardin dollarin yritys, DMS-ohjelmistomarkkinat ovat melko pienet, vaikka niiden marginaali onkin korkea. Jopa suurin osa japanilaisista Tier 1 ovat lopettaneet DMS-ohjelmistokehityksensä ja ne näyttävät olevan konservatiivisimpia. Tästä syystä emme näe todellista kilpailua Tier-1-kilpailijoilta.”
DMS market size. In your latest H2 2020 presentation, I noticed an interesting slide on page 9, which tells about the potential market size. There were two rough estimates presented, one from ABI and one from Semicast. Semicast seems to be much more positive about the adoption rate. Does the Semicast estimates match with current discussions you are having your clients?
Difference is other one DMS/OMS. Pretty close in terms of DMS only. So if you look at the penetration rate in 2026, not that big difference. However, we are a bit more conservative than Semicast. We need 12-18 months to be more accurate about the adoption rate in 5-6y time.
Regulatory framework . If you could discuss a couple of words about the regulatory framework and the way you think this could have an impact on the DMS adoption rate? I have seen the Euro NCAP initiative, and the US is also going forward with their own initiative.
Regulatory. Jatkokysymys . In your view, how well can the 2022 EU regulatory requirements regarding driver drowsiness and distraction be fulfilled with other technologies than DMS? Do you trust there will be more detailed specification of this regulation supporting your technology to be used?
We were the ones who actually contacted the EU authority in the first place and presented them our DMS offering. We are the having discussions with them on a weekly basis.
The framework doesn’t say exactly that it has to be Seeing Machines or Smart Eye. But it will be a camera-based DMS, that’s clear. 9th December 2020 there will be bigger meeting where more characteristics are revealed, like what functionalities you need for 1 star, 3 stars, 5 stars. Not sure if you can find this on Euro NCAP site. But even in the US, our customers are going ahead with our products, they will not wait for the framework to be finalized.
OMS. Last month I saw a press release from you where you stated that you are expanding your offering to include OMS as well. We already talked about the competitive landscape in DMS. Do you see that you are competing against the same companies in OMS as in DMS? Or is the competitive environment very different?
Core application is driver monitoring system. But OMS: OEMs are saying that if we have to have a camera, can’t we do more things then. OMS camera much more simpler. It doesn’t need to track eye movement. Technology requirement much lower. But OEMs saying that we don’t want two different cameras. We have developed a product that is a single infrared camera that can do both DMS and OMS.
There will be more competitors in this space due to lower requirements. You don’t need advanced eye monitoring for OMS purposes.
Pricing. What about the pricing? Let’s say that your customer wants to buy a DMS from you? How much do you get paid, roughly? And then if your customer would like to include OMS capabilities as well, would the price double?
We haven’t really got into pricing environment yet. Not yet in a point when somebody has asked us how much DMS/OMS will cost. But let’s say that maybe OMS could increase our price by 50%.
DMS royalty USD 10-15 per unit on average. More functionalities, the higher the price. Some could pay USD 25 per sold unit.
Maybe one question about long-term margins. In automotive industry in general margins tend to be quite low but obviously if you are only a software company you can have much higher margins than a hardware company. You have kind of both of HW and SF (ask about the importance of being hardware agnostic). I don’t know if you have given any long-term margin guidance?..30%/50% EBIT margin? Tahan tuli aiemmin jo vastaus. Automotive software royalties todella korkea marginaali. Sanoivat HW & SF etta meidan bisnes voi nayttaa etta molemmat mutta kaytannossa SF. We have this relationship with silicon and sensor guys so that we have more options to show. Tama jai itella vahan epaselvaksi.
Opportunities outside automotive .
Fleet 1 stage. Now.
Automotive 2 stage. Soon.
Aviation 3 stage. Later. Jai mielikuva etta Aviation tulee joskus jos tulee.
Inside ownership .
Kysyin ensin alemman kysymyksen. Sanoi useaan otteeseen etta bisnes juuri nyt inflection point. Sen jalkeen kysyin mainitsin etta oletteko sitten Naomin kanssa ostolaidalla. Sanoi etta ostoja kylla tulee mutta tama aina vahan hankalaa kun erilaisia lock-up periodeja jne. “But share purchasing will happen shortly.” Kaveri ollut talossa 2 vuotta…
Other things you would like to add.
Inflection point now. Automotive 100% revenue CAGR by 2025.
Fleet 40-50% revenue CAGR until 2025.
Omat puhelun kohokohdat. Kommentit kilpailukentasta melko linjassa Smart Eyen kommenttien kanssa. Pelikentta nayttaa olevan jaettu naille kahdelle pelurille Seeing Machines mielesta. Ehka Smart Eye oli vahan optimistisempi muiden pelurien kuten Eyesight tekemisesta. OMS kilpailukentta tulee olemaan erilainen kuten myos Smart Eye kertoi. Tama inflection point, ei johdon omistuksia vahan kummastuttaa. Seka lisaksi se etta he eivat juuri kiinnita huomioita design winneihin…koska niita ei ole? Asiakkaat myos ovat vahvasti matkalla kohti camera-based DMS, Paul todella vahva mielipide etta siita ei edes enaa kayda keskusteluja etta voisiko teknologia olla jokin muu.
