Seeing Machines (SEE)

Hi Kesa, the source is the Car & Driver tests where they test with a dummy wearing ‘joke shop glasses with eyes on’ (I have paraphrased) and even a hand holding the glasses were enough to fool the Cadillac Escalade(didn’t check which year of vehicle, may be fixed in Model year 2022)

But Mike Levine (Ford Marketing) confirmed that they use eye gaze vector tracking (… to verify it is a human, who is paying attention) see this thread https://twitter.com/semicast_res/status/1425455166933852165?s=19

When I say extras, it is like buying air conditioning for your car:

  • hair shirt/Finnish version with no A/C just fans
  • manual A/C
  • Climate control - set target temperature
  • 2 zone climate control
  • 3 zone climate control
  • Climate Control that starts to cool the car when you unlock the car (not wait in the oven until car is started
    -remote control - you can start A/C from your phone before you go to the car

Each feature costs more (and profit grows faster) but very hard to go back to a lower level once you have tried it.

Seeing Machines will keep developing new extra features that you could add (even to existing vehicles via OTA)

For example,
-Basic DMS
-Gaze location (Window, cluster, left/right/rear mirror other locations (customisable for each model of car)
-Eye gaze vector
-Head position (for HUD)
-Phone to ear/food/phone in hand/seatbelt position /out of seat/smoking
-Mask usage
-OMS front row
-OMS 2 rows
-OMS 3rd row
-Identification (single camera IR)
Identification Anti spoof (2 camera 3d IR)
-Check for normal (eye gaze normal variability, body position, seat belt in correct position)
-Coaching - remind to check mirrors before indicate, not checked speed for a whole, not checked rear mirror
-Anti nag - disable line crossing warning if driver checked 2 mirrors before moving and no nearby traffic

Those are features off the top of my head SEE may, or may not charge for those. Some may be developed by T1 based on basic data from DMS but the OEM will pay more per vehicle or in up front NRE costs

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Ok, I had similar understanding already in the first place but was puzzled because this is what Seeing Machines announced in February…

"Seeing Machines - - is pleased to announce that its Driver Monitoring System (DMS) Software, a key enabler to the General Motors Super Cruise1 driver assistance feature, is now available in the 2021 Cadillac Escalade.

Seeing Machines’ advanced driver monitoring software reliably measures the driver’s head-pose, eyelid closure and precise eye-gaze direction under the full spectrum of demanding automotive incabin lighting conditions and driver appearances, including operating with glasses. High-performance driver monitoring is vital in supporting hands-free driving capabilities, where the DMS continuously monitors the driver’s visual attention and delivers this information to the vehicle."

And now you are saying that Escalade does not include these features? Or one can get them only if they pay extra money? I’m still confused.

Further, we (I count Colin as one of us :rofl:) think that GM has rewarded also Smart with some design wins (last year). So my bold synthesis with these pieces of a puzzle (could be wrong, let me know your thoughts) is that there is something fishy between GM and Seeing Machines.

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Kesa, it is probably that the system can do eye gaze and there may be cases where the T1 software looks to see where the gaze is directed (like the Merc adjusting side mirrors) but perhaps when the hands free mode is on, it is not checking to see where the gaze is looking, or rather, there may be enough wobble in the glasses on the dummy, or in the hand holding them to make it think the gaze is changing. Perhaps what is missing is “a please blink or I will stop the car” message. :laughing:

I think that some GM has gone to Smart Eye, but probably for their Chinese JV suppliers for the domestic market only

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The way I read the SM announcement is that their dms software specifically enables hands free driving. If not true, the announcement is very misleading, don’t you agree?

Anyway, very odd if GM has decided not to choose for all the extras. I cannot imagine a good reason for this, which would not hint for some kind of issues betweeen GM and JSS and/or SM.

What makes you think it’s for their chinese JV suppliers? Different T1?

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Mielellään kuuntelen eriäviä mielipiteitä, kunhan kertoja pystyy ne perustelemaan.

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Kesa, unfortunately we are working with little public information that is of a suitably challenging nature. I don’t see many Cadillac’s where I live and the Escalade isn’t practical (or affordable) in the UK - I although I regularly see Trucks and Buses with Guardian on board.

We don’t know why the fake eye glasses worked. I could continue to postulate semi-plausible theories but without the ability to test them I will just be misquoted. It is good to challenge, 95, 98, 99% are good but still not perfect. But if the alternatives are 15, 25, 50 or 80% then it is clear where the winner really is but targeting on 5,2,or 1% of “failure” isn’t giving the true picture

Colinilta taas uusi ennustus markkinatilanteesta linkedinissä. Aikaisemmin hän on ennustanut markkinaa SEE:n cmd:ssä 2019 täällä: Long live the King of the DMS | Safestocks

See:n markkinajohto on kasvanut 40-50:stä 60-65%:iin. Smartti on noussut 5-7% ennusteesta 20-25%…

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And here is Colin’s full article with justifications for his position https://www.eetimes.com/driver-monitoring-not-self-driving-is-the-key-auto-market/

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VW on jossain kimpassa Argo:n ja Ford:in kanssa. Argossa on käytössä dms. Voisiko tämä olla SEE:n tie volkkarin dms-toimittajaksi. Ainakin double sourcing mahdollisuus tässä on joillekin malleille.

Yes there is a strong link between VW and Ford for electric base drive trains, however the much stronger link is VW and Qualcomm.

Snapdragon 4 will have SEE dms ( maybe Oms ) embedded into the silicon stack. QC will be selling it as a complete package, optional of course. Watch for QC wins for Snap4.

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Is there any VW models using Qualcomm already? I only find some old news from 2017 and 2018.

VW have not made a decision yet on the DMS side and i assume they are part of the current rfqs.
However in June they signed up with Qualcomm for their 5G connectivity and data processing. Of course this implies nothing however lets see what happens.

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Toimari tykkää linkedinissä QC:n ja rellun yhteistyötä. SEE:llä on mielestäni ihan hyvät mahdollisuudet napata näitä smartin voittoja itselleen kunhan päästään 4 gen snapdragoniin.

Olisi hyvä selvittää miten paljon oem:it käyttävät suoraan näitä QC:n tarjoamia standardiratkaisuja ja miten paljon rakennetaan omaa. Ainakin QC:n käyttäjälle luulisi olevan suuri houkutus ottaa standardi dms QC:lt, jolloin saadaan toimiva ratkaisu ja voidaan välttää ne ongelmat, joista EU rapsakin puhui.

Sitä pohdintaa en ole nähnyt, että SEE:llä ei välttämättä ole intressiä tehdä yhteistyötä Nvidia-leirin kanssa koska he niin selvästi asemoituvat QC:n ostokohteeksi, samoin kuten smartti-affectiva asemoituu vahvasti nvidiaa kohti… Viime konffacallissa SEE:n TJ toki pohti ääneen, että eivät välttämättä tule bidaamaan kaikkia RFQ:ita. Voisiko olla, että halutaan varmistaa QC:n ostokelpoisuus niin ettei ole turhia kilpailuoikeusongelmia…

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Ja bullish meno jatkuu!

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Let’s break that down:

  • RFQ’s at unprecedented level (he does not say rate, so these are far, far bigger than in the past)
  • fleet growth
  • new channels of Fleet sales
  • enterprise customers - this isn’t a big fleet, it is a Major Business, perhaps with their own fleet of vans, trucks (and aircraft) that we have already worked with and already named in the past perhaps?
  • aviation contracts in sims - we already have had a few RNS, more on the way…
  • aviation contracts in air traffic control - we already have that big Australian RNS
  • aviation contracts in Aircraft I can think of two very likely customers who we are known to be working with and another that has had less attention but the signs are there
  • “Growth out to FY2030” , I forget, was that 8 years or 9 years, well when you are staring down the barrel of the most powerful DNS in the world. Do you feel lucky Punk?
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Why do you think he made the statement? What’s the motivation to spread this kind of information right now (in Linkedin)?

I’m just wondering that when you are the CEO of a publicly listed company, you would publish news via rns and other related information in interviews, at cmd etc. But not in Linkedin, Facebook or Twitter (Tiktok is ok :laughing:).

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Kesa,
Probably like the rest of us, he is frustrated with the share price which looks like it is being kept low while someone accumulates. We must have had one of the IIs take their profit but it is struggling to move up despite having far more intrinsic value.

He can’t RNS or value the contracts that not quite completed. They might still need i’s dotting and t’s crossing with the delay waiting for the other partner to be further advanced or closer to moving to production or a planned launch date before news can be released. It must be frustrating to still be imminent on so many fronts!

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I certainly hope this is not the real reason. It’s not CEO’s job to pump up the share price but lead the company such a way that great results follow the execution in any case. And in the long term value will follow the results.

It seems Seeing Machines is coming after your pockets pretty soon. Hopefully they have a good investment case for the money.

P.S. I (try to) invest only in companies with honest, innovative and forethoughtful leaders.

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Kesa better check that Elon is excluded from your portfolio!

More likely, he knows that significant news is coming. He wants to make sure that the bidding starts at a higher share price